So I really liked Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights I remember reading that

I: Could you talk to me about him, sorry I haven’t read that.

So, he was like this, he had like a, it’s one of these really old books and I think in like Victorian times and then he was like a landowner like a sort of what are they called

I: Yeah, yeah so he had…

I don’t know whatever, yeah like so he fell in love with this woman I think it’s Cathy, I think that was her name but then she died. So he was, the character he was very, very sort of, he was like almost like a hermit and he was quite a dark character but he was dark because of that loneliness and I remember I’ve always sort of thought about him, I could relate to him like because it’s like nobody could ever understand him fully, and Cathy she did understand, I think that was her name Cathy and she did understand him but then she passed away.

I’ve got one particular one, yeah. So there’s a gay man, he’s passed away now sadly, but he was a guy called Quentin Crisp, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of him or not?

I: No, maybe if you tell… Because I’m not good with names.

R: I mean basically he was English, from London, and he was born in the 1920s and he was one of the first gay men to publicly come out I would say. So there’s a movie about him, it’s called the Naked Civil Servant that come out in the 70s and you can still get the DVD and he came out in the 1940s after the First, Second World War I think, First or Second World War, and you know he was a teenager and he used to dye his hair purple, wear make-up, but walk down the street presented like that, and he used to get so much abuse, you know?

But he always knew what he was, and he always was never ashamed of it. But he did say in his documentary that he led a very lonely life. So for about 40, 50 years he was so lonely because he didn’t have any friends, society didn’t accept him. And I used to watch him, and I’d admire him because I’d be like “you’re so strong”, you know, “you’re really strong.” I remember I actually watched that movie when I was 14, and I was sat in my bedroom watching it, and my uncle came in and he said, “what are you doing watching that old gay?” you know? And I remember just thinking “you haven’t got a clue.”

And I watched it a couple of months ago actually because… But then on the other hand I remember I said to a friend of mine a couple of months ago, “oh I’m so lonely, I don’t want to end up like Quentin Crisp”, you know? So I think about him at times like that, but I also think how strong he was, you know? And also he was he got into the same habit that I have where he got so set in his ways that he didn’t court friendship anymore, and you know if he did become friends with somebody and it didn’t work out, he wouldn’t grieve that relationship. He would just get on with life because he’d been through so much that I think being lonely didn’t scare him anymore.

A lot of the people I identify with and this is gonna sound really quite xxxx probably [um] are dead

I: Yeah that’s okay

Marilyn Monroe

I: Why so?

I think because she had, she had the borderline personality disorder herself  and a lot of in the way she behaved and how people treated her I can relate to. She was just a lost soul and again couldn’t find that connection she needed with someone to keep her alive.

I: Mmmm yes she was, she was a very lonely figure as you said

Yeah

I: Okay

She got the stars, you know, and she was a very, and she just, she was hunting for her own family because she hadn’t got one of her own so I relate to her a lot, I relate to, I mean I was a, still am a big massive fan of like Nirvana and Kurt Cobain and [um] the grunge scene xxxxxxxx Alice in Chains and Chris Cornell, I think it’s people that have got, have mental health issues and perhaps killed themselves or drug problems, I sort of feel for them, I emphasise more with them. Yeah, they’re lost souls.

I: They had families however didn’t they, they, but

Yeah

I: Yeah so they experienced another, an internal form of loneliness as you described it.

I think so but that fed into the external loneliness as well because like Kurt Cobain had, obviously mental problems himself to do what he did but he, I think he, I think he actually said it I’m not, don’t quote me on that but, you know, he could be in with a room, a crowd but he felt so empty and lost and alone and I think a lot of people felt like, and I think that stems from obviously things weren’t great in his childhood and I don’t think things were working out too well with his wife and plus the drug problem [um] all fed into how he was feeling and that was it. That was the end of him and I think with the same with a lot of people that go buy drugs or suicide is, there’s something there going on that’s fed into that internal loneliness and which projects outwards onto how you feel on the outside as well.

So, there’s a singer, Karen Carpenter?

No, sorry, I don’t…

She’s quite old. She had anorexia and she died when she was 32.

I’ve seen just the movie. I’ve seen it, yeah. OK.

Yeah, so I kind of relate to that and I do listen to a lot of her music because I can relate to it, kind of thing.

And do you think she was a lonely person as well?

Yeah, I do.

Why?

Because, again, she her eating disorders started because she didn’t feel loved and she felt like she always had to be better than what she was.

I watch another film is, a film I used to, that I haven’t watched yet because I’m afraid to watch it is, oh God what’s it called, my son gave it to me. Will Smith with his son.

I: Oh the Pursuit of Happiness.

That’s it. He got it me years ago, I still won’t watch it because for me watching something which hits me is, is a thing and that I know will hit me so I’m sort of afraid to watch it even though my son’s threatening to, keeps telling me to watch it and he bought it. Grey’s anatomy is something I used to watch during my, don’t ask me how, I think I was pretty depressed at the time and I happened to stumble across a channel at the time who were doing a mega series thing at the time and that’s another thing that hits me because it’s quite emotional. It’s quite, well when I say real, as real as TV can be, especially from America but that hits the heart strings so not anyone in particular but if it’s a good TV programme you, you can recognise it if you know what I mean. It hits the spot.

I: And how does loneliness come into those programmes?

When you’re dealing with things by yourself, if you’re dealing with being a single parent, loneliness about dealing with problems by yourself. Loneliness about not knowing how that you’re by yourself. The loneliness of dealing with a problem rather than loneliness as being isolated. I suppose there’s different types of loneliness. I’m isolated here to a certain extent but I’m not necessarily lonely but if something else happens and I’ve nowhere to go to or feel as if I’m, you know, emotionally isolated, that’d be better, yeah.

There are many figures, lonely figures in books or in movies, you know in TV series that we watch. Do you remember any of them? Are there any that stick to your mind and you kind of identify with?

Well one of them I’m thinking of recently because I’ve watched the Netflix series The Crown and I would say Princess Diana.I know she went round the crowds and everything but I honestly think deep down she was a very lonely person.

Why do you think that? I have the same perception.

My verdict is, is because she was very young when she got married to Charles and I don’t know whatever side of the fence you’re on whether you’re pro Charles or pro Diana, she just wasn’t equipped or taught.

I’m a woman.

I know don’t get me wrong, I’m pro Diana, I honestly think Charles the way he treated her was absolutely disgusting.

Yes, well you know we’re on camera so I can’t say otherwise but yes.

I can understand that and I’ll also not express anymore of my view but basically she was brought up where she very quickly married into a relationship with a man who was quite a chunk older than her, I’m not saying age differences are a thing but in that sort of environment and she was basically married into the marriage without knowing anything about each other, they had completely different interests. She was obviously younger, wanted to do her own thing and she was basically into her family where affection is very sort of… I’m not saying The Crown’s accurate in any way because it isn’t but I pretty much guarantee that the royal family is probably one of the coldest families on the planet particularly when you have the matriarch Queen Elizabeth, she can’t be expected to be all huggy and that and she’s brought into that. I think yes she did try to alleviate a sense of loneliness and detachment from the family and from Charles who clearly was not invested in the marriage, besides he needed heirs, you know going out and interacting with people and becoming the people’s princess and that was probably her way of coping with it.