I don’t know, I do think like I know it sounds really clichéd but, you know, I’m male and just so any kind of, you know, that straight way you’re thinking you’re kind of admitting, I mean loneliness especially like, you know, if, you know, if, if you think oh I’m lonely, you know, you’re thinking well am I like a loser or a, you know a kind of weird guy or something and it’s just yeah that was a, yeah I don’t know, maybe when you actually read, you know, a bit more about loneliness and you think of the definition you think well yeah, yeah I can completely understand. But yeah it’s I suppose it’s an odd one.

I: You, you talked about masculinity

Yeah

I: And loneliness, why do you think it’s more difficult for men to, to kind of admit and, maybe admit to themselves or admit to their broader circle that they’re lonely?

I don’t know I think it does come at you that you’re a bit of a sad guy or a loser in some way, you know, if you feel that, you know, I don’t, yeah I think that’s, that’s probably something but again that’s specific to men. Like I’m, I’m from the north of England, I think there’s a certain kind of characteristic, characteristic along with that about, you know, the stiff upper lip and stuff like that and I know that’s a British thing.

I: Sorry the?

That stiff upper lip thing, you know, the kind of not really kind of being honest with your feelings anyway but like particularly kind of in the North. I feel like there’s a thing about I don’t know feelings, you know you don’t really talk about them, you know, especially coming from a kind of working class background it’s not really the done thing.

Yes, absolutely. Okay, so there are many lonely figures that we see in movies or we read about in books or we see on the telly, does anybody pop to mind that you can identify with?

I don’t think so right now. So I know the kind of archetypes you mean though. I tended to actively avoid a lot of depictions of loneliness in the media because they worsened my feeling of being defective or alienated and they worsened my feeling of hopelessness and again I think there was a lack of talking about loneliness as a thing that can happen to just normal people. It was always this person visibly has no social skills and you know is really

profoundly like struggling in society, not this is another well adjusted person who has got some confidence issues and is struggling to make friends in a new context.[46:41]

I see your point.

Yes, and so they make me feel worse because it would increase this feeling of “oh there’s something wrong with me” rather than I’m in a tight spot right now, I need to find my feet, so I tend to avoid that.

And also it is I, I forgot to say that it is really embarrassing even for me to say to my social worker or care coordinator to say I’m lonely it’s just such an embarrassing word to use, you know.

I: Why?

It’s just, it’s really embarrassing it’s like I don’t know there’s more stigma in that word than ever before for me it’s, it’s like you’re a failure

I: You almost made it synonym to loser before.

Yeah just it’s such a failing to say oh I’m lonely and, and actually even if a man and I think my neighbours says I’m lonely I’m thinking what, what is he trying, is he trying to come onto me like, you know, so, do you know what I mean, saying the word has sad reactions but also saying the word as a person it’s embarrassing and I don’t know, it’s [um]. You might say oh do you want to befriender, do you need to befriender, this is what mental health said do you need a befriender? I said no I don’t I can walk around my myself, I’ll happily jog in the, you know, in the, in the park but it’s more I don’t need someone, you know, to check in or, you know, these peer, peer researchers or peer support not peer, you know, they’re trying to do all these peer lead things I don’t want someone calling me to see [um] if I’m okay and all that I don’t want someone who’s paid to do that and also it’s more embarrassing having a befriender because the word befriender means is for someone who’s I don’t know in their 80’s, you know, who needs someone to take them out, so yeah

I: So you said that [um] being lonely, experiencing loneliness or being alone in today’s society is even more stigmatised than before.

Yes

I: Why, why do you think that is?

Because there’s so much access to not being lonely

I: Oh okay yeah, yeah

So, so there’s Apps there’s groups you can set up, back in the old days you wouldn’t be able to set that up online because you could actually not feel lonely when you’re gaming someone on the other side of the world, you know, there’s so many ways to get involved in things. But then the opposite is that in the old days you could go out to the pub and you’ll meet someone whereas you won’t be meeting anyone in the pub now but like in the, like nobody would, you know, the old, I’m talking about dating, the old fashioned way of dating doesn’t exist now.

R: I found it helpful when I’ve gone to groups, not for loneliness I think I’d find it harder to go to a group for loneliness I think I’d find that difficult because it feels, again I’m not judging anybody else but to me I’d feel like being lonely it’s well you’re just lonely, I don’t know it just feels, I’d feel very judgemental about myself with it.

I: So do you think there is a certain stigma to loneliness?

R: Yeah I think for me, again I’m not saying this for other people but it feels tied up that if I admit I’m lonely then it’s me being needy or sort of like oh a bit, bit too much, sort of, I don’t know, I don’t know it just feels a bit, again this is judgemental towards me and not other people but I feel like.

I: Yeah no don’t worry.

R: A bit like a bit pathetic [laughter] I don’t know it just feels, something about it just feels like I’d rather go to a group where I feel able to go to a group for like anxiety, but not able to because too anxious, I mean like the concept of it I wouldn’t judge myself as much whereas loneliness would feel like it doesn’t, yeah but I guess there is a stigma to it.

I: Where do you think it emanates from, where do you think it comes from?

R: I think it feels a little bit like the, I mean it’s a stigma for a lot of mental health problems have improved or lessened, you know, in a positive way [um] recently over the last sort of five years or so, but I guess it feels a bit similar to how depression used to be kind of minimised, like oh come on just pull your socks up or that sort of stuff, which I think is much lesser now [um] there’s a bit more awareness. But I guess it feels a little bit like that kind of like get a grip, like it feels like that kind of attitude still to it.