Difficult, especially at the moment. I have been I have been going out with a girl for a year and three months now, and whenever we have an argument or something it is always to do with that because even though there are good points, like you can focus, you know you focus on things a lot better, things that you enjoy, like more than a normal person would, like a normal person, like somebody else would have a few things they like and they do a little bit of this and little bit of that. But way I could spend a full, you know, like fourteen hours taking a photo and then spend another six hours or so taking a photo and then eight hours getting it right on photoshop.So I think that is a plus side, like you can look at any people, you know any of like the greats in history, like Beethoven, Albert Einstein, Bill Gates and you can see there is obviously plus sides to it.
If you have any sort of fallings out it tends to be because you can be quite focused on something?

Yes.

And not see her point of view may be. I mean do you manage to sort that out between you?

Yes. We just talk like, we talk a lot, because you have to when you have to be completely honest, like all the time otherwise it’s hard enough to understand at the moment, but like if we didn’t tell each other and stuff and like help sort it out then we wouldn’t have a chance really because there is so many things that just look like you were being selfish or just look like you are not communicating properly, that you really do have to work at it because it does get in the way of relationships. It does. But it is not impossible, but it is definitely something that you have to work at.

Yeah, I try to yeah. And I also have a girlfriend as well. Who I see and that regularly and stuff like that. She pops down and says hallo and stuff like that, which is another thing that I could mention.

About what? Hows that been, having a girlfriend?

Very strange, it’s taken some getting used to. Once again because my social system, you know, developing you know, to someone that becomes a friend, becomes a girlfriend, that whole process really. You know, and loving someone and stuff like that. You know, it’s a whole big thing really for me. And it was slow at first. Half the time, I had to get people to tell me, that, you know, this girl really, really liked me. She wanted me to, you know, go out with her. But for me, I don’t click onto that sort of thing [laughs]. Because like the emotional side of things. And someone actually had to tell me that, you know, my feelings were the same, because obviously I don’t know that myself half the time, and it just started off from that really, good support from friends really. And it just started off like that really, just gradual process really.

Catherine: We were pen pals [laughs]. We wrote to each other for what was it, about a year?

Neil: Hm.

Catherine:Before we got together.AndI mean Neils got a lot of problems as well.At the time, undiagnosed. But, you know, we kind of related to each other, because we had a lot of similar problems. And his brother has got Asperger’s. So he knew. Although when we first started writing we didn’t know I had it. But now, you know, he kind of knows a lot about how to deal with it and stuff. But yes, we met up. I came up hereto visit, because I am from [county] originally.Came up to [town] andyes, we just got together basically from writing to each other and, yes, we have been together, for what, four years?

Neil: About four years.

How long ago did you meet your partner?
About fifteen years ago. And she is really, really good. I couldn’t do a lot without her. Well I couldn’t do anything without her really. And then she has got not one but two of us on the spectrum, to consider, so it is you know. It is a good thing that she is there. I mean she thinks that we don’t value her but we do really. We just like to keep her working a lot – if that makes sense – we would be she is really, really supportive. And it would be nice to do some things for her sometimes, I think, because she is always doing things for us, which is good.

Margaret: Well I mean we have some fantastic arguments. Fantastic shouting matches. I don’t know what the neighbours think. I know what the kids think. [laughs] But we do, we fall out big time, and I mean it is always really verbal. I know it is. Screaming pitch from both of us. Not just me. [laughs] He is just as bad as I am.

Daniel: And I used not to be able to argue with her, and most couples, well in the last year or so I have improved slightly so…

Margaret: [laughs] It is not an achievement.

Daniel: I can almost hold me own ground now. Because it is just like wellYou know.

Margaret: I don’t know, I think

Daniel: She has this really good knack of she can have a massive argument with somebody and not swear once, and it is just

Margaret: Unless it is you.

Daniel: And it is just, she doesn’t get personal or anything like that, she does not get

Margaret: Unless it is you.

Daniel: Unless it is me.

Margaret: Unless it is him. And then it all comes out. Everything.

Daniel: But I have sort of, I have almost,the idea with the theory of mind, is because I have listened to her arguing so much, that I have almost learnt, I have almost learnt back what she is doing, and basically that’s

Margaret: That’s how he can argue, because he knows.

Daniel: Basically, it’s just like, it’s basically I have learnt response from listening to her [laughs] argue with me and argue with other people and everything. So it is sort of

Catherine: No, we, at this time we were still actually writing to each other. We kind of just, for the first few years that we were together, we were still writing. We just kind of visited each other which was actually quite good, because I mean Neil as we know now has got bipolarand I have got Asperger’s.And it was just a big thing of like we both need our own space a lot. I couldn’t conceive of living with anyone because it just made me feel ill. I mean with living with my own Mum and Dad I actually had to get a council place on my own on medical reasons because I was starting to feel that I couldn’t live with my Mum and Dad any more. Even though I love them and everything, I get on fine with them. I just can’t bear being around people. So for a bit, I actually lived on my own. So we were still writing to each other. Visiting each other a couple of times a month, you know, but not actually living together, but you know, we were still together.

Neil: Hm. It helped in that way, because it kind of help like, you know, we weren’t both defined at that moment so we didn’t know what was going on, so when we actually met up each other, it was kind of we didn’t have to see that side of each other.

Catherine: Hm.

Neil: And, but then obviously when you moved closer, then it is kind of okay, I start, right, okay, I get it now and seeing different sides to it.

Catherine: Yes. I mean when you are around someone more, you start to see what they are like, you know.

Neil: But then it kind of, you know, then you know how to deal with it, because you have got like a label on it, and you can go okay this person’s got this. They are acting like this. This is what I am going to do for them rather than they are acting like this. Why? What am I am going to do?Oh go away or, you know, then, or you get frustrated really or whatever. I mean it is same with like, you know just, Cathy has got to deal with me as well.

Catherine: Yes.

Neil: So it is kind of, you know, we are both just equally as bad, so it is not a case of you know I have got to deal with you all the time.

Catherine: I mean in some respects it is a nightmare. In some respects it is good because we can help each other, because even though we have got different things, there are a lot of crossovers, a lot of similarities, because at one point it was thought that he had Asperger’s because his brother has got it and there’s a lot of traits that are the same. But then you know looking into it more. It is, you know, and finally he has got diagnosed as well in the last year, which is amazing. Butyes, I think, I mean say up until a point, it was only my Mum who knew really what I was like, because she had seen me in distress.She had seen me through everything I did. You know, she pretty much had to go everywhere with me. She had to go to appointments with me.She had to accompany me places like, because I couldn’t sort of go anywhere where I hadn’t been before on my own, because I would just get lost or something, you know.

And so she was the only one who really knew before Neil what I was like because my Dad, we have a strong suspicion that my Dad has got Asperger’s as well and it was a big problem, sort of growing up with my Dad because he is so distant and sort ofhe basically used to lock himself in the garden shed all the time and it was this thing where both me and my sister went through a period where we just hated my Dad because we thought he didn’t love us. We thought that he didn’t care. We basically felt like we had just been brought up by my Mum because my Dad was so not there. He was just in the co

I’ve had good friendships with people. I think I struggle with kind of long term relationships a bit. I don’t know really [laughs]. I just have. I guess it’s relationships are tricky when people have different wants and needs and things or expectations. I find usually friendships with certain people easier in a way. The kind of people I’m on, I’m on the wavelength with or have a similar interest to. Although I’ll happily talk about one of my interests for hours on end so if there’s a… or a similar temperament to me, then I tend to get on with people okay. I have some good friends, I think who I’ve been in touch with for a long time. It is mainly through interests I think sort of musical, or table tennis, or study or whatever. And you occasionally meet someone you get on with. I’ve only ever tried living with one person in a relationship and that didn’t really work out. I think I’m quite an intense person and I tend to attract people of a similar nature.

A lot of the people I’ve been out with in life have had sort of mental health difficulties [small laugh] or traumatic pasts or sort of odd ball misfits. And some, sometimes I’m the more kind of stable, together one but it kind of fizzles out for whatever reason on their side of things. it’s hard to sort of explain why it, relationships have been tricky, it’s kind of oh lots of reasons. Partly to do with the way I am, and partly to do with the way people are who like me. it’s hard to explain, probably the intensity of the thing. I don’t know. I guess I’m quite stuck in my ways as well, I don’t play social games so it takes a certain kind of person to like what I’m about I think, and it tends to be that they’re a bit that way themselves. it’s starting to sound like I haven’t been that successful in anything [laughs].

So you’d like to start your own business in the future. What about relationships? Have you had any relationships?

This one girl who started [housing organisation] a few months ago… I have never been ready for love. I’m still not ready for love. At one time this girl just kept pressuring me into being her boyfriend. Bombarded my phone with texts, and I felt had no choice but to just give in and be her girlfriend, be her boyfriend rather.

Yes.

But, but fortunately I was able to let her down gently two nights later, with some help from the staff.

And now you still live with her, but she’s not your girlfriend?

Yes.

Yes, and that’s okay.

Hm, hm.

Have you had relationships in the past? Do you want relationships?

Never in my life had I had a relationship. I would like very much to have one.

Do you anticipate having one?

No. The reason being is I’m looking for someone who understands and accepts me for who I am. And the only way it’s going to happen is if by some fluke chance I manage to meet an Asperger’s suffering female. And the chances of that are somewhat reduced by the fact that autism hits boys and girls by a ratio of 4 to 1. So that’s, that knocks it down for a start. Secondly, you have to actually go and socialise in order to kind of make any impact. That stops, that stops me dead quite a lot of the time, and thirdly you’ve got to, you’ve got to think on your feet. Any of the questions that are given to you, you must expect. I mean they could be, you know, your bog standard of, you know, where are you from? What do you do? Age? That kind of thing, up to more bizarre things, you know, they go off into theirthey go off into what they like to do, their hobbies or interests. And for the normal person who doesn’t suffer from Asperger’s Syndrome they can, they can blag it. They can kind of talk their way through it. For Asperger’s sufferers there is no blagging. You go, you in there, you go unarmed in a battle of tongues. If you don’t know something then you just draw a blank. That’s all there is to it.

Do you anticipate have a relationship in the future?

Yes, probably, yes, yes. I mean I think there’s only really been one serious relationship down the years, you know, which in itself only lasted about six to seven months. You know, so it’s a very difficult area.

What’s difficult about that?

Well that’s difficult to put your finger on really. I mean I think it’s a communication difficulty that you have sowell that again is just very, very pervasive in the field of relationships. I mean it, I mean you know, the fact that you’ve got an understanding problem on a social level, I mean it is perhaps, it is perhaps magnified when you’re dealing with a woman, because I think women are more communicative, more social if you like. And if you’re considerably less communicative, less understanding of communicative issues than the average man, you know, that’s pushing you out to the fringes of the spectrum really, so it’s very difficult to establish a rapport in the first place really. You know, that is the main problem I think.

I mean in the future are you happy not to have a relationship then?

Possibly yes, because I find that and I think, I think it’s the biggest worry. You see all these people out there, and how there are people out there thatbecause I do see myself because I suppose really, that there are people like myself who probably might be vulnerable and that lot, and I wouldn’t like to be taken in. So really I wouldn’t contemplate on going on these websites or anything like that because there are a lot of con men out there, you know. I mean they con you out of very little. Whatever depends whether you’ve got owt or nothing. So I am quite happy to sort of be on my own, because, I find it better because, I find that you don’t have to answer to anybody, you can do what you want or whatever. So really I’m not contemplating anything really. Although, I do tend to get on better with men than I do with women, I have found it sort of very difficult in the past to work with women, but I do find it easier working with blokes, because I suppose with a bloke, I suppose it’s just say what they say and then that’s it. With some people like women, that they can be, they can be nasty and they can sort of drag it on for ages, and sometimes I suppose they can make your life hell. So, but, yes, I am quite happy I think to be on my own, it doesn’t really bother me, really. I’m quite happy I’ve got college.

Ach no, my idea of hell, [laughs] I’d have to share my laugh with someone. No. I don’t, I couldn’t care for a child. So having children’s out of question. Social Services would whip me off them with two seconds flat. So kids are out of the question and I mean, when my friends lived with me, we were good friends, and we still are good friends, you know, we talk at least two or three times a week and stuff, but to actually have to do things with someone and feel obligated to do things with them, and I know it sounds absolutely awful, but to share an interest in what they’re doing and what’s going on in their life is good fun, but it’s a lot of pressure to have to do it every day.

At the moment, you know, I mean all my friends on the internet, we’ve got very like you know, 50/50 relationships. You know, they’ll ask me stuff about their kids or they’ll tell me what they’ve done. I’ll tell them what I’ve done. You know, it’s just a normal every day friendship. But if I can’t cope with it, I just turn my laptop off. If you’ve got someone living with you, you can’t turn your laptop off. You’ve got, you know, you’ve got to be nice, and you’ve got to engage with them. You know, if I’m having a bad week I can shut myself away and watch DVDs and don’t have to worry. But if somebody was living with me in a relationship I couldn’t do that. And I need to be able to do that. To de-stress otherwise I would just end up exploding.

I am single. I don’t know, I guess that is because I am not particularly outgoing with girls. Yes, very sort of… rather you know a night in, rather than a night out, sort of I don’t want toI guess involvement I guess going out involves being sort of all the hassle of thinking what to wear and how I should have my hair or something and it is a bit too much, that is all. I would rather sit at home watching a movie you know, jogging bottoms and a baggy teeshirt, whereas going out means having to, you know, put my hair in styles and Put nice clothes on. And just finding nice clothes would be a good start. I mean I don’t really have any. This is the nicest thing I have. it’s you know, it is cleanish I think. It is good it is clean.

I think that is particularly why I have always kind of steered away as far as possible from any sort of more intimate relationships, you know, sex is fine, no problems there. You know, lots of random one night stands. [town]is a town full of slags. I mean it is quite atrocious. It really is. But you know, that is something true, but anything more than that. I mean there was a person a couple of years ago, made it quite clear that they did want something more, and actually at one point after diagnosis I got back in contact with this person and randomly they were in a hotel in [town], and sort of went round, you know, to sort of apologise and say look basically, you know, I always got the impression that you wanted a sort of relationship to take place, and well, you know, I have Asperger’s and so you know, I really sort of don’t get it. I really don’t deal well with this sort of thing, and basically it was my way of apologising, because in many ways I sort of wanted to have a relationship because that is what really you are supposed to do. That is what normal people do but being in that situation was just something I felt so uncomfortable I didn’t want to have that sort of level of intimacy, you know, I do not want to share every detailed aspect of my life.

You know, like sharing a room with somebody. My God that would drive me nuts, you know, it would not be happening. And, you know, we ended up having, well sleeping together and stuff but you know it was always very much I think sociologically everyone is very sort of programmed. You know, you are supposed to have a sort of formal, you know, steady permanent relationships, that is the goal. That is what everyone is sort of after but the reality is, it is very sort of an unknown quantity and I always just sort of avoided it and steer away from it. And even sort of at the age I am now, I am sort of not entirely convinced I would actually be capable of dealing with that sort of relationship or whether it would just drive me nuts. I mean sharing sort of, you know, entirely every aspect of your life with somebody. [intake of breath] I am not sure I could ever be truly comfortable with that.

Are you quite content on your own then would you say?With your one night stands and stuff?

Well I wouldn’t necessarily say content is the correct word. I think from a very long time ago accepted, well that is probably how it is going to be.Realised years and years and years ago that I was probably very likely to be sort of single, my entire life and for a long, long time it did bother me. I don’t think it particularly does now, but I can’t be certain whether that is simply I have just accepted the fact and grown accustomed to it that it doesn’t bother me any more. But [2 sec pause] I think there is an element that I would like to, but there would be certain elements involved in that, that I wouldn’t feel comfortable with. Certainly not at least, initially, you know, things, I think it sort of goes back to aspies not being terribly good with dealing with things they haven’t done before and dealing with the unknown and there would be such an enormous level of unknowns. And it would be sort of very intimate, very personal, you know, somebody sort of knowing huge amounts about you and I wonder whether I could ever be actually comfortable being in that situation.